EP 92: Leading Lyme Authority Dr. Ingels Shares His Approach To Healing

 Mimi MacLean:
Welcome to The Lyme 360 Podcast, for all things related to Lyme disease and other chronic illnesses. I'm Mimi MacLean, mom of five, founder of Lyme 360, and a fellow Lyme warrior. Tune in each week to hear from doctors, health practitioners and experts to learn about their treatments, struggles, and triumphs to help you on your healing journey. I'm here to heal with you. 

Mimi MacLean:
Before we get started with the podcast, I wanted to talk to you about what is in your personal care products and cosmetics. What you put on your skin, which is your largest organ, is just as important as what you consume. Your body immediately absorbs what is on the skin. But did you know that there is limited regulation in the personal care industry, and the last that was passed was 1938? So the chemicals and ingredients in your products have not been tested for human safety. So for those of you struggling with your health, it is super important to use clean products. Eight years ago, I started using Beauty Counter for my cosmetics and personal care products. They are the leaders in clean safer products that work. Beauty Counter has done the research and taken the guesswork out of what is safe. Go to lyme360.com/beautycounter to learn more. Reach out to me at mimi@lyme360.com if you want to learn more, or find out what my favorite products are. 

Mimi MacLean:
Welcome back to The Lyme 360 Podcast. This is your host, Mimi MacLean. And today I have Dr. Darin Ingels, and he's a licensed naturopathic physician, author, international speaker, and leading authority on Lyme disease. He's a former Lyme patient who overcame his three year battle with Lyme disease after failing conventional treatment and becoming progressively debilitated. Dr. Ingels found a proper diet, lifestyle management, and natural therapies worked for his body to heal instead of against it. He then applied what he learned about his own healing journey to his own Lyme patients and found they recovered faster and with less side effects. Dr. Ingels now has treated more than 8000 Lyme patients using his novel approach. Many have gone on to live healthy, symptom free lives.

Mimi MacLean:
Dr. Ingels has been featured on WebMD, Mind Body Free, Be Well, Thrive Global, Motherly, and Dr. Ron Hoffman's Intelligent Medicine Podcast, and the author of The Lyme Solution: A Five Part Plan to Fight the Inflammatory Auto-Immune Response and Beat Lyme Disease. To get my detox for Lyme checklist, go to lyme360.com/detoxchecklist. 

Mimi MacLean:
Thank you so much, Dr. Ingels, for coming on today. I really appreciate it. I'm excited because you don't get to talk to many doctors that have actually experienced Lyme themselves. So I would love for you to briefly talk about your Lyme journey. And were you already practicing medicine before you had Lyme? Or did you ... Which came first? 

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Well, kind of about the same, so I had just finished my residency in Seattle, and I moved to Connecticut in 2001. And then in the summer of 2002, I got Lyme disease, and I had classic Lyme disease. So I had really only been in practice for less than two years. I was still a new doctor. I mean, I lived in Seattle, where we really didn't see a lot of Lyme patients at the time. And when I got bit, I mean I had all the classic symptoms, so I had the bullseye rash, I had the 105 fever, headache, joint pain, neuropathy, pretty much every symptom you read about in a medical textbook. And I started on 21 days of doxycycline because that's what you do. And four or five days into it, I really had no symptoms at all. So I figured, okay, great, it's done with. I finished my 21 days, felt fine.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
But I literally got bit two weeks before I opened my own practice. And when I opened my own practice, I couldn't afford staff, so I was answering the phones and being the receptionist, the doctor, the bookkeeper, everything. And so really, I was working six, seven days a week, working long hours to keep up with everything. And eight months into that schedule, I started relapsing. I started getting back pain. I started getting neuropathy. I started getting headaches again. And I'm like, "Well, this is really familiar." So I figured, well, I did doxycycline before. It worked, I'll do it again. And I did a month of doxy, and it did absolutely nothing.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Then I did a month of azithromycin, and it did absolutely nothing. And then I started working with another local Lyme doctor, and she started me on sort of the barrage of combinations of oral antibiotics. And nine months into that schedule, I was just getting worse. I'd lost about 30 pounds over the course of that nine months. My gut was a wreck. I didn't feel good at all. And I was fortunate to have known of a doctor in New York City named Dr. [Jong 00:04:34]. I had seen patients over the years who had seen him. He's a medical doctor from China, but he works as an acupuncturist in New York City. And I saw him, and he started me on a series of Chinese herbal medicine. I was getting acupuncture. And in a month, I felt 80%, 85% better. And he also reminded me that I wasn't eating as well as I should have, and sleeping as well, and really taking care of myself. 

Dr. Darin Ingels:
So all the things I was telling my patients to do, I wasn't doing, so that was my wake up call that I had to be really getting serious about what I was eating, and sleeping, and my lifestyle, and then of course starting on the herbs and acupuncture and relaxation. And it still took me about two plus years to get to a point where I really felt like I had my health back. But I eventually got to a point where I was 100% symptom free.

Mimi MacLean:
That's great. I'm so glad that you are now. So did you kind of change the whole focus of your practice to Lyme at that point, or did you kind of still go along with how you started your practice, and it kind of just evolved into it?

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Yeah. I mean, my background is actually in environmental medicine, and it's all the things in the environment that make you sick. Once the word gets out that a doctor has had Lyme, people tend to gravitate towards you because they know that you understand. You've walked in their shoes. And from there, the practice just kind of grew. And of course, living in Connecticut, there's a lot of Lyme anyway, so there was a lot of people. And over time, my practice got to be mostly Lyme related, tick borne illness. I still work with a lot of children with autism and other allergies, asthma, and things of that nature. But the bulk of my practice today is still focused around Lyme disease.

Mimi MacLean:
That's great. You have also written a book, The Lyme Solution: A Five Part Plan to Fight the Inflammatory Auto-Immune Response to Beat Lyme Disease. At what point did you say, "Okay, I have this great formula that's working. Now let me write a book about it because I can't see all my patients"? That's typically what happens with doctors. Right? Then you want to reach more people because they can't see everybody. How long into your practice were you when you decided to do that?

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Yeah. So once I had my own experience of Lyme and everything I learned in my own journey, I really just started applying it to my patients, and I found that they were getting better faster, and it was working. So I started writing the book in 2017, so at that point, I had been in practice for 18 years before I started writing the book, and it got published in 2018. But what was happening, of course, is that I was hearing from people all the time. People were calling me from all over the country, and really even all over the world, that they lived in areas that didn't have a doctor that understood Lyme disease or tick borne illness. They weren't doing the right testing. They were missing diagnoses. And these poor people were just kind of left holding the bag on their own.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
So I was fortunate to have connected with my friend, Dr. Amy Myers, who's written two very successful New York Times bestsellers. She put me in touch with her agent. And I said, "Hey, look, I've got this idea about a book," and I think the way that we think about Lyme disease is a little bit different because it's more than just an infection. Right? It's all the other things that lead people to get sick. I mean, I think we've seen this a lot with COVID too. Right? It's just that some people get very ill from it. Some people die. And some people get a sniffle. What is the difference? I think the difference is the terrain. So the book really focuses and talks about: How do we get your terrain functioning as optimal as possible? Because when we do that, when your gut functions better, when your immune system functions better, when your cells function better, it's easier for you to manage the Lyme, and of course, the litany of all these other things that tends to go along with Lyme disease.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
At least in my practice, when I see someone who has Lyme, it's almost never just Lyme. It's the Lyme plus, Lyme plus mold, Lyme plus stress, Lyme plus Epstein-Barr, Lyme plus whatever you want to add. But there's always co-factors as part of the story. And so we're never really just addressing killing Lyme disease. That may be part of it, but we've got to address all these other things that make up you. And if we can do that successfully, we get people feeling better so much faster.

Mimi MacLean:
That's great. Can you just briefly touch on what the five parts are that you talk about in the book?

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Yeah. Well, the first part is really about gut health. If the gut's not functioning well, it's going to be really hard for your immune system to function well. We know that 80% of your immune function stems from the gut. So if you've had chronic constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating, et cetera, that may be a disposition that your immune system can't handle fighting infection well, and potentially even disposes you towards autoimmune disease. And we know that Lyme and these co-infections can trigger various autoimmune illnesses. So it's really about: How do we get your gut healthy?

Dr. Darin Ingels:
The second part of it is diet. The diet and the gut, of course very closely related. What you put in your mouth obviously goes through the gut. But I really promote an alkaline diet, and in a nutshell, it's really about eating foods that as they break down, they make your cells more alkaline. We know in cell physiology that your cells repair faster in an alkaline environment, that the enzymes and all the activity is better in an alkaline environment. Really with the exception of your skin, your stomach, your bladder, and for women, the vaginal area, which is very acidic to protect against outside invaders, the rest of your body is more or less alkaline. So it's really about eating foods that again, as they break down, make your body more alkaline. So it's really mostly a plant based diet, limited animal protein, and of course eliminating all the junk food and foods that tend to make your body very acidic.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
The third part is really targeting infection, so that's the different herbal protocols that I use in my practice that target Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, all these different infectious agents. And what I like about herbs is that unlike antibiotics that can kill of a lot of your normal microbiome, herbs don't do that to the same extent. We know that antibiotics, at least long-term, can damage your mitochondria. That's the part of your cell that creates energy. Herbs don't do that. Plus, herbs have all these additional benefits. Not only do they target the organism, they're antiinflammatory, they're analgesic. They can help modulate pain. They can help support your immune system. They can help improve your circulation. So we can really mix and match herbs in the right way so that we're optimizing everything we want to do that covers the totality of what Lyme has done to your body.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
So the third part is really about: How do we find that right combination of herbs for you? And I tell everybody with Lyme again, your Lyme is your Lyme, and it's really hard to compare yourself with everyone else out there with Lyme disease because your experience is going to be very different. So when people start with herbs, if you find that one protocol's not working well for you, we've got plan A, B, C, D, E, F and G if we need it. We just need a place to start.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Part four really gets into environmental factors. We know the environment has a tremendous impact on your immune system and your health. And certainly again, the majority of my Lyme patients often have problems with mold or mycotoxicity. So it's looking at your exposure to mold and mycotoxins. It's looking at your personal care products, things you put in your hair and on your skin, things you use around the house. Are you using bleach and Windex and 409? And do you spray your yard with pesticides and herbicides? We have this bio-accumulation of chemicals that over time again can alter our cells in a negative way, that can suppress your immune system and make it more difficult for you to fight infection. So it's really about taking stock of your environment, getting rid of all the toxic junk, replacing it with safer, more natural substances, and again, an issue of mold, making sure that you have a safe home environment, or work environment, or school environment. And then if you do have mycotoxins, there's a whole protocol to help mobilize that tissue and get it out of your body.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
And then the fifth part of the plan is really just about lifestyle factors. That's where we talk about the importance of sleep. We know if you're not getting good deep, restorative sleep, that's when your body repairs itself, that's when you restore yourself, that's when your brain detoxifies. So sleep is really paramount in good health. We talk about stress management. We're all stressed, and if you've been chronically ill for a while, you're probably very stressed. I think the last two years for everybody has probably been a bit more stressful than previous times with COVID, but again, when you've got a chronic illness because of how you feel, potentially you're not working and there's a lot of financial stress. So life is what it is, we can't necessarily change the circumstances. But how can we change the way that your brain perceives that stress and responds to that stress? So that's what we talk about, meditation, and movement, and other types of things that's going to really help you master your stress.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
And then we also talk about movement, exercise. I know so many of us, when I first had Lyme, I literally plopped in front of the couch and couldn't do anything. So I just started stretching. That's what I could do. And eventually, I started walking around the house. And then I started walking around the neighborhood, and eventually started studying martial arts, and I got a black belt in karate. So it took a long time to get there, but a little movement is better than none. So no matter what your physical limitations may be, it's important that you get some element of movement, even if it's just stretching or having maybe a physical therapist, someone that can help you move if you're really physically unable. But I found that was an important part of my recovery. And we just know from the research too that your big muscle groups really contribute a lot to your ability to recover and improve your resilience. 

Dr. Darin Ingels:
So that's really kind of the fifth part in a nutshell. So I think as we start walking through each of those pieces, we're really covering a broad scope of what Lyme can do to your body, and try and correct that so people feel better. 

Mimi MacLean:
Right. And so for your treatment, not only are you recommending I assume supplements and herbal. Do you also do IV treatments as well?

Dr. Darin Ingels:
We do. Yeah. I mean, when I was in Connecticut, the scope of a naturopathic doctor actually prohibited us from doing any IV, so actually for almost 20 years, I didn't do any of that. But now I'm in California, we have a broader scope, so we do IV nutritional therapy for people that aren't getting enough nutrition orally, or for whatever reason, if they've got an underlying gastrointestinal issue, we don't think they're absorbing their food very well. There's various types of nutritional IVs we can do to help support people to make sure they're getting enough nutrition. We can give them high dose IV vitamin C. We can give them glutathione. We can give them phosphatidylcholine. So fortunately, we have access to a lot of nutrients that can help improve various parts of your health. 

Mimi MacLean:
I know. I noticed that just from moving from LA back to Connecticut, I loved getting EriZone treatment in LA. I cannot find anybody in Connecticut that does that.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
It's very hard. It was very challenging when I was in Connecticut. Ironically, Connecticut really being suburban New York City, you would think there would just be a plethora of functional medicine practitioners, and there's very few. You have to go to New York. They're all in New York. For whatever reason, Connecticut has very few. It was very frustrating when I lived there.

Mimi MacLean:
Yeah. So you were also talking about in your step number two about alkaline. What's your take on alkaline water? Is that kind of a marketing thing, or does that really work? 

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Probably more of a marketing thing. I don't recommend that people buy alkaline water. You're paying for something you don't really need to pay for. Again, you can do this through diet. And for people who we want to push their alkalinity if we really need to, you can even add a little bit of baking soda. Or we use a product called Tri-Salts. It's basically a bicarbonate formula. And you can just add a little bit of that to your regular water and drink that. And that is alkaline water. So I don't think it's worth spending money when it's such a cheap, easy thing to do yourself. But ultimately, I'd prefer that people manage it through diet because ultimately, it's not about the pH of the food. 

Dr. Darin Ingels:
For example, lemons and limes are acidic. If I squeeze lemon juice on pH paper, it's going to come up as an acid. But when you drink lemon juice, it breaks down in your body and makes your body more alkaline. So it's not about what happens kind of coming into the system, what happens is when it gets absorbed through the body and how it interacts with your tissues. So that's where you're probably going to have a bigger impact on diet. But again, there are some cases where I've used Tri-Salts for people that are having a Herx Reaction, people that are having various allergic reactions. And when you alkalinize your body, it can help basically cause an antiinflammatory effect, and those symptoms start to go down. 

Mimi MacLean:
I saw on your website you had Tri-Salts, and I was wondering what that was for, is to make it more alkaline in your body.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Exactly. And again, it's such an inexpensive, easy thing to do. We'll have people check their urine pH. You can check it 30 minutes after you eat. And I try and get people's pH 7.2 or higher in the urine. And if we can get that, that's showing that we're keeping your body in that more alkaline state. And if people check their urine pH and it keeps coming at five and a half or six, we know that between what they're eating, whatever medication or supplements you take, obviously the totality of everything you're exposed to is contributing to that. But we really try and get the urine pH shifted in more an alkaline state. And that gives us a pretty good idea of what's happening to your other cells.

Mimi MacLean:
Right. So if you have somebody that was just diagnosed, and they don't they need [inaudible 00:17:38] go see a doctor, or the doctor that they wanted to see is four month wait. Besides buying your book and reading it, what other recommendations would you give somebody to ... Okay, this is what you can do, next steps at home.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Yeah. For financial reasons, or like you said, if you're waiting to get in, there's so much you can do on your own. I mean, you can change your diet. And if you're aware that you're probably not eating as healthy as you should, that's a very, I won't say easy, I mean, it's easy in that it doesn't cost you any money. May be very difficult because you've developed this pattern over your entire life, but in terms of the ability to do it, it's there and it doesn't cost you anything. So dietary things, you can do.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Movement is free. You can move your body, again, within your physical abilities. But taking a walk around the neighborhood, doing some stretching, doing some exercise, as you tolerate. Again, you don't have to pay for an expensive gym to do that. Even if you live in a cold weather climate, there's a lot you can do inside your home that's again, cheap and easy. Meditation is free. You can learn how to do that. There are a million YouTube videos if you have no idea what to do, and you have access to a computer, which I'm guessing most people do these days. And you can get a lot of information on a place like YouTube. So there's so much we can do in terms of planning on going to bed early. Don't stay up until 2:00 in the morning every night. Give your body an opportunity to get that deep restorative sleep.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
And if you're not sleeping well for other reasons, that's a different issue, but at least making the commitment to trying to get good sleep. Again, that doesn't cost you anything. So some of these lifestyle things we can do, you can go through and get rid of all the toxic chemicals in your home. That doesn't cost you anything. These natural cleaners aren't really any more expensive than the conventional stuff, but it cleans up the environment. So go for the low hanging fruit. Start with the simple things. I know on the surface sometimes it doesn't feel like it's much, but over time, it builds.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
I can remember some teacher telling me once, "If you start putting a dollar a week away when you're in first grade, by the time you graduate high school, you're a millionaire," or something like that. Just showing that little bit consistently compounds over time. And then there's a big benefit at the end. And it's kind of the same things with our health. These little bits that we do, these little changes we make every day, every week, has a cumulative effect, and over time, builds. And you get a much bigger effect. 

Dr. Darin Ingels:
So we talk about the 1% advantage. If you can just get 1% difference over time, again, it makes a big difference. So I just encourage people, if you're financially not in a position to pay for an expensive functional medicine doctor, or you just live in a place where there's nobody really nearby, there's so much you can do. And that's really what I wrote the book for, is that it kind of walks you through those steps. So it's a very relatively inexpensive easy way to kind of go, "Okay, I can start with my diet. I can start working on my gut health." And I talk about different herbal protocols in my book that you can buy the herbs online, so you don't have to leave your house. So again, there's a lot that people can do until they're able to get in the hands of someone who might be able to give them better guidance.

Mimi MacLean:
So you mentioned just now, sleep is so important. And one of the side effects of chronic Lyme is insomnia. Is there anything that you recommend, obviously besides not having your phone out before you go to bed? Is there any kind of supplements or anything else that you would recommend to try to get people ... My problem wasn't falling asleep. It was staying asleep.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Yeah. With sleep, it depends on: Is the issue falling asleep, staying asleep, or both? Or there's some people, look, I fall asleep, I stay asleep as far as I know, but I wake up and I'm just exhausted. I'm kind of a fan, again, if you can afford it, to use some sort of sleep tracker. I personally use an Oura Ring. Some people use a Fit Bit. They're a bit pricey, so it might not be in everyone's budget. But if you can, I like the data that I get from it. And that way, you can see. How much deep sleep are you getting, how much REM sleep? How much are you moving at night? So depending on what you did the night before, you can start putting the clues together that based on your sleep hygiene and what you did, oh, that actually helped me sleep.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
And it's interesting, for my own self I found, I mean fairly recently within the last couple months, I think one night I came home late. And for whatever reason, I was hungry. I don't even remember what I ate, but it was some sort of carbohydrate something. And I don't really eat junk food or any of that. But I noticed that I slept really well that night. I'm like, "Huh." And I tried it again, and if I have a little snack before I go to bed, I actually sleep better and deeper.

Mimi MacLean:
Wow.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
So maybe I was having some blood sugar issues that I wasn't aware of. I didn't think so. But for me, that was a little easy thing that I found actually helps improve my quality of sleep. So again, having a tracker might be beneficial. You'll be able to see based on what you did that night before and how your sleep was the next night. Put the correlation together. So was it the time that you went to bed? Was it your pre bed routine? Was it something you ate? And again, anything like that is just more information that you can use. 

Dr. Darin Ingels:
But in terms of supplements, again, for people that have difficulty falling asleep, we can use things like melatonin. We can use things like 5-Hydroxytryptophan. There's a lot of herbs that help promote better sleep, things like valerian root and lemon balm and Jamaican dogwood. I've actually used a lot of CBD oil with my patients. I find a lot of people do really well with CBD. It's safe. You can get it pretty much at any age. The downside to CBD is that often it tends to be a bit expensive, particularly if you get to the higher doses. But I've had some people that really helps improve their quality of sleep. And again, pure CBD doesn't have any THC. It's not like full cannabis to get you high. It doesn't do that. But there's so much research on CBD as a way to help to manage pain, to help with anxiety, help with your sleep. And again, that's been one of my favorite go tos of recent.

Mimi MacLean:
No, it's true. When I was in a lot of pain, I couldn't sleep because of the pain, you would wake up in the middle of the night in pain, the CBD really helped me at night just to sleep, especially if you have joint pain. I used to have ear pain too. I don't know why. And that would help. I've used kava too.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Kava's great. Again. We've got so many different herbs work well, Theanine, which is another nutrient, GABA. Unfortunately, people are going to respond differently to different nutrients, herbs, so it does become a little bit of trial and error to see what works best for your body. So if you've tried something, particularly if you had sleep issues for a long time, I don't expect an overnight wow. So give it a couple of weeks of trying something before saying it's helping or not helping. But if you've been taking valerian for a couple weeks, your sleep hasn't really changed at all, then it might be worth trying something different. But I have people that will try various things, and inevitably we hit on something that works well for them.

Mimi MacLean:
I love your quiz on your website. For anybody who's listening, it's dariningelsmd.com, which I'll have in the notes below. But you have a great survey for symptoms. Do you have Lyme? Are these your symptoms?

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Dr. Richard Horowitz, who you know is the Lyme guru out there, and he has a very long MSIDS questionnaire. And so really, this is just an abbreviated version of that. I just found his questionnaire for lot of people, we were trying to get them to do it regularly, it's so long. They're like, "It's more work to do." So I just tried to condense it down to a little one page easy thing for people to do. But it's just a great way to help monitor your symptoms over time. You live in your body day to day. And I know it's like watching grass grow sometimes. The change happens, but it's so slow. So filling out a questionnaire periodically just to see, oh, yeah, I forgot I used to have really bad joint pain. And I gave it a four before, now it's only a two. Because our goal is of course always 100%. We want to feel 100% better. So sometimes it's hard if a symptom has gone down that-

Mimi MacLean:
You forget.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
We forget, yeah. And sometimes we forgot when we had a headache, joint pain, neuropathy, the list is long. If one or two of those symptoms go away, you're still left with these other ones, again, it's easy to forget. Oh, yeah, I used to have really bad joint pain. It's like I forgot because I still have the headache, and that makes me crazy, because our goal is again usually 100%. So it's good to be able to track things over time and just to have something a bit more objective our measuring how you're doing.

Mimi MacLean:
It's like moving. Right? We all forget how painful it is to move. Right? After you move, and then you forget about it. And then when you go to move again, you're like, "I forgot how painful it is to move," because if we actually remembered, nobody would ever move again. Having a baby.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Selective memory may be a very good thing at times.

Mimi MacLean:
Thank you so much for your time. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to talk about with your practice? Or you have a great newsletter, so anybody can join there as well. So anything else that we haven't touched on that you would like to touch on before we go?

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Well, we'd love for people to sign up and join our newsletter. We've got a lot of great information about Lyme disease, other chronic illnesses. We talk a lot about some of our partners that we work with that have various supplements and products to help people get well. And I also want to let your listeners know that actually just developed a series of supplements with Allergy Research that just came out last week. And so we've got a formula to target Lyme and all the co-infections. It's called Phyto Tick Defense. I've got a formula for managing Herxheimer reactions. I've got a formula for breaking down biofilm. And then we've got a formula to help support your mitochondria.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
And so between the four, they're going to be really cost effective. And again, for people who might be kind of managing this on their own, this might be just a great way that we cover a very broad base of what Lyme does to your body in a very cost effective way. So if you're interested, check it out. It'll be available through Allergy Research. I think it's actually available. I think they just released everything last week, so pretty excited about that. 

Mimi MacLean:
That is exciting. Thank you for all you're doing. And you might want to put ... I saw also, unless it's already been past, there's a summit coming up. Are you doing a summit, a Lyme [crosstalk 00:27:56]?

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Yeah, we did the summit. That was in December. But if people are interested as well, we are going to be launching kind of a mentorship program or a coaching program that will be coming out in the next few weeks. So if you get on our list, we'll be sending out details. We're basically, I think it's $97 a month, but it'll be twice a month with me, and twice a month with a health coach, where you'll be able to come on every week and talk to one of us, get questions answered. So without me being their doctor per se, at least we can get people a lot of really helpful information to get people again on the right track. 

Mimi MacLean:
That's great. Well, thank you again. And have a great night.

Dr. Darin Ingels:
Thanks, Mimi. 

Mimi MacLean:
Each week, I will bring you different voices from the wellness community, so that they can share how they help their clients heal. You will come away with tips and strategies to help you get your life back. Thank you so much for coming on, and I am so happy you were here. Subscribe now and tune in next week. If you want to learn how I detox, and you want to check out my detox for Lyme checklist, go to lyme360.com/detoxchecklist. You can also join our community at Lyme 360 Warriors on Facebook, and let's heal together. Thank you.