Mimi:
Welcome to the Lyme 360 podcast, for all things related to Lyme Disease and other chronic illnesses. I'm Mimi McClain, mom of five, founder of Lyme 360 and a fellow Lyme warrior. Tune in each week to hear from doctors, health practitioners and experts, to learn about their treatments, struggles and triumphs, to help you on your healing journey. I'm here to heal with you.

Mimi:
Hi, welcome back to the Lyme 360 podcast. This is your host, Mimi McClain. And today we have on Jess Talbert and we are going to be talking about exercise and activity. Jess helps women with chronic illness redefine their relationships with exercise, so they can begin to live in active lifestyle, without the fear of flaring. She is passionate about educating people on how the fitness industry isn't set up for women with chronic illnesses and leads them to feel defeated and not capable of being active. She is a certified holistic nutritionist and a 200 hour yoga instructor.

Mimi:
To get my detox for Lyme checklist, go to Lyme360.com/detoxchecklist. Jess, thank you so much for your time and coming on today.

Jess:
Thank you.

Mimi:
I'm excited to talk about your specialty and your expertise, which is working out and getting people active, which is, I know it's so important, but at the same time, both of us having gone through chronic Lyme, it's so hard when you're in so much pain and it's just even painful to go to the bathroom or take a shower. So the thought of exercising is just monumental, but I do know, I feel like having now gone through what I've gone through, little steps, baby steps. I used to be like, "Okay, today I'm going to do 1000 steps. And then now I'm going to walk around the block and work my way back up," even though it was painful. But I feel like having that, then all of a sudden, I don't know what happens, but your pain kind of goes away. So I would love to just talk about how you got involved in starting your company and your program and how it's helped with your chronic Lyme journey.

Jess:
Yeah, absolutely. So like you said, sometimes this chronic Lyme, you just can't even get out of bed. So what I love about redefining what movement means to you and what I do in my program is that movement doesn't have to be the traditional fitness or the traditional exercise that we think of, and that we're taught. It can literally be going to the fridge, going to the bathroom, that is living an active lifestyle on those tough days.

Jess:
And then on the other days that you feel a little bit better, maybe it is those 1000 steps or a walk around the block or a little bit more and taking those steps building forward. So yeah, my journey with fitness and chronic Lyme was really just a long process because I was a lifelong athlete. And then all of that felt like it was taken away from me when I started experiencing symptoms and they started to amplify. And so it really took me a long time to stop trying to push myself to work out and stop trying to hang on to that part of my life. And instead, kind of let go, let my body heal and then reincorporate movement in a way that feels good for my body now.

Mimi:
And how long ago did you get Lyme?

Jess:
2012, so it's been a decade.

Mimi:
Oh, wow. Okay. Now, are you back to where you were as far as exercising-

Jess:
No.

Mimi:
We'll never kind of get back there, yeah.

Jess:
Yeah. I've really let go of where I was prior to experiencing symptoms and my diagnosis. And now I just move my body in a way that feels really good on any given day. And I'm able to feel the subtle signs of a flare coming on, or my immune system revving up or any weird little Lyme symptom, since we all have different ones. When they come up, I'm able to just stop and have no guilt about it. And my fitness level has returned to prior being diagnosed, but my movement goals are different, and how I feel about exercise is different and it just feels amazing.

Mimi:
Yeah, it's interesting personally, I used to go to Soul Cycle all the time, do a lot of just strenuous probably not great, it was a lot of pounding on my body. And I just, if I do that now, I'm in bed for two days. And I don't know what it is. I had a doctor explain to me once it's almost like the chemicals that are being released in the body, your body's not used to it. And for me, I get huge histamine reaction. And so it's almost like my body's allergic to the chemical. So I can walk now. But another thing which was really interesting, I can't do is yoga. I've never been a yoga person. So now I'm really allergic to yoga because I even did a basic yoga class and I was in bed for a week. It triggered me. And I don't know if its just from hanging upside down, my neurological symptoms kind of come back. I can't do it. I don't know if you've ever heard that from anybody else.

Jess:
Yeah, absolutely. I've definitely heard all sorts of different things and me personally, I can't really do those kinds of yoga classes either, which is interesting, you have that same experience, especially in any kind of heated room really, really triggers me and I'll be in bed for a couple days to a week as well. But yeah. So I basically, when I'm feeling kind of I'm exercising and then I suddenly start feeling a Lyme flare coming on, it typically feels more like the flu. I feel like I just have the flu so badly. I get fever, I get the chills, I get the shakes, I get all the things, super not fun. And so it's basically revving up your immune system to think that something's going on and it needs to shut you down. And the only way it knows how to do that is to make you feel really sick and be in bed.

Mimi:
What kind of exercise are you doing now?

Jess:
Yeah, so it kind of depends on the day and that's part of what I love working with people on is being able to understand where you are on a day to day basis, but I'm typically doing more low impact, Pilates at home here on my floor, if I want to. I go to Pilate's reformers classes and I teach them, hiking, and every once in a while, a very slow jog.

Mimi:
Yeah, I do a lot of walking and weight training. So my husband has had Lyme too. And his joint pain is like mine and he says to me like, "Oh my joint pain goes away when I lift." Have you heard that, and if so, why would that be? Is it something that's being released, that's kind of undoing that joint pain?

Jess:
Yeah. Well I think, a lot of the Lyme can live in those little pockets in your joints. And so a lot of that joint pain does happen. I think oftentimes too, it's just that when we have Lyme and oftentimes we're just in bed, we get muscle weaknesses, which I think can amplify joint pain. So it could possibly be that he's strengthening the muscles around his joints making them more stable and it can just feel relieving.

Mimi:
Yeah. It's true. So tell me about your program and what you do at work with your clients.

Jess:
Yeah. So with my clients and my program called the Chronic and Active Lifestyle Academy, I really help my clients go from feeling like they don't fit in with the fitness world anymore or chronic illness holds them back from being active, especially in the outdoors. I'm a very outdoorsy person, I live in Colorado and I wanted to be doing out those kinds of things. But I felt like chronic Lyme was holding me back from doing all the fun things I wanted to do.

Jess:
And I had to come to this realization where being active was going to take a lot more than just making the decision to go to the gym, go outside, go on hikes. And I structured my program around exactly what I had to do, which was look at my whole lifestyle. I had to let go of my prior self and I had to kind of grieve my diagnosis and I had to set up a support system around me and set up my life in a way that would relieve any unnecessary stressor, so that I could make room for being active, because that is a stressor on the body at the end of the day, if we're really pushing ourselves to work out or go on hikes or go backpacking, that is a stressor on a chronically ill body. So just really looking at my entire lifestyle and restructuring everything allowed me to be active and do more of the things that I love to do. So, that's what I help my clients through in a 90 day transformation.

Mimi:
So it's 90 days?

Jess:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Mimi:
Yeah. It's hard. I don't know if you have children or not, I think you're too young probably to have children, but for women who have a family, you're already giving your all if you work and then housework and driving around and keeping up with the kids, I find it very hard to have the energy to do all of that, between work, housework, kids and working out, being active. So I feel like something's got to give. And usually that's the first thing, because if I put on my Oura ring or whatever and walk around the house and do all my housework and cleaning and whatever else I'm doing running around and we just moved, so packing and unpacking, it's almost like the 10,000 steps I would...

Jess:
Absolutely.

Mimi:
For me, that's my almost exercise, but then my husband's like, "You need to exercise." I'm like, "I know, but I just did. I just walked around for hours today putting away things and unpacking."

Jess:
Yeah, you're exactly right. A lot of people in my program, a lot of clients I've worked with, sometimes their activity goal is just getting their chores done. It is running around with their kids or cleaning the house, doing the dishes. And I do count that as exercise because you are physically going around, you're taking those steps, you're picking things up, you're putting things down, you're twisting over, you're doing all these different things. And sometimes that is enough on the body. And then if you feel like you want to do more outside of that, and you feel in a place that you can on that given day, then why not? Maybe do some low impact exercise on your living room floor or in your bedroom or in your backyard. But I do think that is a really good point in that active living is not just that traditional thought of a dedicated time to exercise, but it can be walking to your mailbox, cleaning your house and all those things we just talked about.

Mimi:
Well, I also try to sneak things in, while I'm brushing my teeth for two minutes, do squats. Is there any other little tricks like that, that you would recommend to clients while you're doing the dishes. I don't know, tighten your leg or whatever. Do backbend, whatever, when you put your leg back or you tighten your fanny. Is there any other little tricks that you would give people?

Jess:
Yeah, definitely. It kind of depends on where people are and what chronic illness they have, but you could even be doing some muscle contractions while sitting on the couch. If you're watching a TV show and you're just flexing your muscles in different areas of your body, that could be some kind of movement that feels good for you on any given day, and you're sitting down on your couch. You can do while you're washing your dishes, you can do little leg raises or elbows up and down, that kind of thing. And then just things like maybe parking farther away from the store you're going to, in the parking lot and just walking those extra steps if you're already out and about, that kind of thing is also just a really easy way.

Mimi:
Or doing the stairs instead of the elevator, right?

Jess:
Exactly, if that feels good on your joints.

Mimi:
Yeah, no, I have a question to ask you because this is my concern is, well, if I walk, I do my little tricks here and there, sometimes I go to the gym and lift, but I'm not elevating my heart rate. How important is that to do that?

Jess:
For me, I can't elevate my heart rate either, otherwise I will be in bed. And so I think that there's other ways that you can get the same benefits. And that is walking. That is a low impact exercise. But if you're walking, you're still getting that benefit as if you were going running and whatnot. It just may not be as amplified, but you are still getting those benefits by moving your body and just getting the blood circulating.

Mimi:
Saunas help too, don't they?

Jess:
Saunas help too. I know that for a lot of us with Lyme though, that heat can really trigger a flare. For me, when my body gets really hot in a sauna, it does make my heart rate go up really high and I get those heart palpitations.

Mimi:
But that's why I said that, because I use it just for detoxing, that's my good way of-

Jess:
Yeah. I've tried doing that and it makes me flare.

Mimi:
Really?

Jess:
Yeah.

Mimi:
Saunas, oh my God. I couldn't live without saunas. I do them almost daily. It's the only thing that keeps my pot from overflowing.

Jess:
Yeah. Isn't it interesting how we're all so different?

Mimi:
I know, right. It's crazy. And you wish it could just be one set thing, but it just doesn't work that way.

Jess:
Mm-mm (negative), yeah, unfortunately.

Mimi:
Yeah. So what else have we not covered that you think would be important for anybody who's dealing with a chronic illness or Lyme?

Jess:
Yeah. I would really love to talk to the person with chronic illness that maybe was like me and athletics were kind of taken away when you start experiencing symptoms. And if you want to be in that fitness world and you really want to be active, but maybe you don't feel like you belong in that world anymore. And so that can be a really, really hard thing to wrap your head around and come to terms with. And I just want you to know that you do belong in the active lifestyle world, in the fitness world, if that's where you want to be, there's just ways that you can restructure your life like I spoke about before, to accommodate for being active, without flaring. So taking care of both that passion that you have, or that big part of who you are and your health, it doesn't have to be a choice between one or the other.

Mimi:
You bring up a good point because I think people who are on this journey, you're on this journey for a reason. And it means that you have to reevaluate your life because what you were doing before wasn't working. It wasn't like you won the bad lottery, to get. It's because whatever you were doing in your life, this is your body's way of being like, "It's not working. Hello, reassess." It's almost like being an alcoholic where you have to completely change your lifestyle in order to become non-alcoholic, I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought as far as what's that called? What's a non-alcoholic, somebody who's like a-

Jess:
Sober.

Mimi:
A sober person. Yeah. Sorry. Lyme brain. So you have to kind of look at your life and be like, "Okay, I'm not going to be the person that's running marathons anymore, but what do I need to do?" And kind of have compassion for your body and what you're going through, and it's a journey and it's trying to teach you something and maybe something on the other end is better than what you were doing before.

Jess:
Exactly. Yes. I love that you just said that. And it's so true. I do love to tell my clients that even though your life may not be exactly the same and you may not be able to do the same things in the same way, or you may have to go to the doctor more often than other people, doesn't mean you can't have a beautiful life. And it doesn't mean you're not worthy of doing the things that you love to do. It might just look a little bit different. And there is that huge personal development curve of having chronic Lyme or any chronic illness in general, where you learn so much about yourself and have to really focus on what's working in your life, what's not working in your life, the people and the things that are bringing you joy and supportive and nourishing and the things that aren't and being able to let go and set boundaries. It's all part of it.

Jess:
And a really, really beautiful lesson, when you look at it a certain way, an opportunity that not a lot of people choose to go through when they don't have to. And you can really, really learn to love yourself through chronic illness and come out, maybe not come out the other side because we don't ever really fully recover necessarily, but you can create your lifestyle to be something that you really love, even though you experience chronic illness.

Mimi:
It's almost like allowing yourself to get off the rat race and what our society tells us, what we're supposed to be doing instead being like, "Okay, no, I'm going to reassess. I can't work as hard. I can't eat the same or drink the same or go out and stay out late," or whatever it is, "Run marathons every week." So it really causes you to just take a break and pause.

Jess:
Yes, absolutely. And that's another thing I actually really love talking about in my program is not feeling guilty for those times you have to so call miss out on things or plans have to change, or you wanted to do a workout and your body's just really hurting or it's not able to. Really choosing to indulge in the rest and find enjoyment in that, even though you don't have to love it or be excited about it, really giving into the rest and enjoying it, maybe putting on a TV show you really like, calling a friend you really love and incorporating some joy into that. Maybe you pick up a new hobby while you're resting. You get an adult coloring book, or if you like being crafty, doing something that way, is a nice way to not have quite these big up and down roller coaster feelings around good days and bad days.

Mimi:
Well stay off of social media, right, so you don't see what you're missing out on.

Jess:
Yeah. That too, definitely.

Mimi:
Well, thank you so much. Jess, this has been amazing. I really appreciate it. Anybody who's listening can find you at JessTalbert on Instagram.

Jess:
Yes.

Mimi:
And you have the links there to your course and any other information that they would want. So I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Jess:
You're so welcome. Thank you, Mimi.

Mimi:
Each week I will bring you different voices from the wellness community, so that they can share how they help their clients heal. You will come away with tips and strategies to help you get your life back. Thank you so much for coming on and I am so happy you are here. Subscribe now and tune in next week if you want to learn how I detox and you want to check out my Detox for Lyme Checklist, go to lyme360.com/detoxchecklist. You can also join our community at Lyme 360 Warriors on Facebook and let's heal together. Thank you.