Mimi:
Welcome to the ‎Heal Podcast, for all things related to Lyme disease and other chronic illnesses. I'm Mimi MacLean, mom of five, founder of Lyme 360, and a Lyme warrior. Tune in each week to hear from doctors, health practitioners, and experts to hear about their treatments, struggles, and triumphs to help you on your healing journey. I'm here to heal with you.

Mimi:
This week's podcast is brought to you by Air Oasis. As a Lyme warrior, I know how important it is to have clean air in the home. I've been using a room air purifier but recently had to purchase an all-home unit to combat mold issues throughout our house. I did some research and found a great company called Air Oasis. Their air purifiers help fight bacteria, viruses, and mold so if you have not put in an air purifier into your home, go to Lyme360.com/AirOasis. They carry room units as well as entire home units.

Mimi:
Hi, welcome back to the ‎Heal Podcast. This is Mimi MacLean from Lyme 360, and today I have Sarah Hook, and she is a Lyme warrior, holistic practitioner, and creator of The Healing Place, a digital platform via Instagram and Facebook that connects fellow Lyme warriors and creates a safe space for people to communicate and learn from each other's wellness journeys. Hook has a certificate in functional diagnostic nutrition and offers general wellness consultation that walks clients through the beginning steps and tips in the healing journey, including gut health, parasite cleansing, detoxes, and root cause testing.

Mimi:
To get my detox for Lyme checklist, go to Lyme360.com/DetoxChecklist.

Mimi:
Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today, all the way from London, from across the pond, so thank you for your time.

Sarah:
It's really nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Mimi:
Yes. So I was eager to have you on because I see that you went to IIN, I did as well, and became a holistic health counselor and for those of you don't know what that is, it's Institute for Integrative Nutrition. It's a school out of New York City, but they're online now. Anyway, so I just would love for you to talk about your experience of having Lyme because you're also a fellow Lyme warrior, and then did you go to IIN before or after, when you were diagnosed?

Sarah:
Yeah, I went to IIN about eight years ago, so it was before I knew that I had Lyme, but I already had symptoms of Lyme, which is why I was very interested in holistic health. I got into holistic health about 20 years ago when I was already having gut health symptoms, and I'd been to the doctor a few times, and they were like, "No, you just got a virus. It'll go." But six months later I was still struggling and that's when I got into holistic health and made some changes in my, I guess, my dietary intake and nutrition and I managed to just like... My symptoms were night and day, but this is before Lyme disease.

Sarah:
So this was just basic things that... Taking the pill had an effect on my health, and I took a lot of antibiotics as a teenager for acne. So these things had built up in my system so by the age of like 21, I was starting to feel just, I guess, chronic symptoms and the doctors couldn't help. So yeah, that's how I got into holistic nutrition and then just fascinated with the fact that you could be empowered and take your health into your own hands.

Sarah:
So yeah, I went to IIN and did the course and everything and started to build up holistic health coaching business, but then Lyme disease struck. So that's the next step in my story and has been for the last six years now.

Mimi:
Yeah. I've had it for six years too. At IIN, did they talk about Lyme at all?

Sarah:
I don't think so back then. And even if they had, I don't think it was even in my mind at that time. I was bitten by a tick at age 25, but I had no idea that that was even a danger. I had the tick on my leg. It had obviously been there for a long time. It was massive. I just pulled it off and thought absolutely nothing about it.

Sarah:
When I look back, I could see that my health just started to deteriorate from then. I think it was a few years later that I started with IIN so my health was already a challenge to me and I couldn't really understand why because I was like, "I'm eating all the right things. I'm doing all the things I need to do," but I didn't realize that obviously, the Lyme bacteria was taking hold of me.

Mimi:
Right. And what were your symptoms? What were your symptoms like at this point?

Sarah:
They were more just very viral. I was able to work still, so I was able to function, but I just constantly felt tired, headaches. When it would come to the weekend, I would just work a week and then spend the whole weekend in bed. I was thinking, "I'm living a really healthy lifestyle." To me, it was just, I couldn't... I didn't put two and two together at all until I think it was like eight years later after the bite, that's when my nervous system health just crashed out and that was when there was no... I couldn't push those symptoms to the side anymore because I just couldn't function.

Mimi:
Right. I see that one of the ways that you have used to get better is bee venom therapy.

Sarah:
Yes.

Mimi:
So I would love for you to talk about that journey to that point. Had you tried everything else up until that point, or was that one of the first things that you tried?

Sarah:
No, this was like, basically I've been stinging for 10 months, so it's pretty new in the scheme of bee venom therapy because it's like a two to three-year treatment, so I'm at the beginning of it really.

Sarah:
And yeah, I've done a lot of treatments over the last six years. I've done STEM cells. I've done Ozone. I've done IVs. I've done cannabis oil. I've done herbs. All the detoxing. All of the diets. I really believe each thing has built on the last. I don't think there's exactly one magic cure. I think looking back, when I first diagnosed, I thought, "Okay, I'm going to get this done in a year." And yeah, six years later I'm still healing and so my decision to do bee venom therapy was because I still had a lot of neurological symptoms left, and I didn't really know what my next option was.

Sarah:
I did Ozone just before bee venom therapy because I really wanted to see if I could bring down the brain inflammation. For me, I guess my most debilitating symptoms have been brain fog, depression, anxiety, extreme psychiatric symptoms that just came out of nowhere overnight. That was for me, I just knew something's attacking my nervous system. So from what I've studied with bee venom therapy and looked into people's experiences, this was a really good way of getting the venom into your nervous system, and it goes past the blood-brain barrier, so that was my reason of starting it.

Mimi:
Has it helped you improve?

Sarah:
Yeah, it's a huge roller coaster. It's been really, really up and down. I have huge crashes still and really big Herxes, but then when I come out of them, I'm more functional than I was before, and it's kind of just like this the whole way. So the last 10 months have been really intense because the venom, it goes in, and it busts the biofilms around the bacteria, so everything's brought up acutely and then your immune system and the venom has the chance to target it.

Sarah:
So when I first started, I had a lot of old symptoms come up, like breathlessness and Babesia symptoms I hadn't had for years. So that was very hard to go back into that space, but then after a month or so, those symptoms died down, and then it's like another layer. So it's been really... It's hard, but also really fascinating as well.

Mimi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I'm fascinated with the whole bee venom therapy. I have not tried that. I feel like it's one of the only things I haven't tried. Do you sting yourself once a week?

Sarah:
Three times a week.

Mimi:
Three times a week.

Sarah:
Yeah. It's a commitment. It's now part of my routine, so I'm okay about it, but at the beginning it was very daunting. Yeah.

Mimi:
You have bees in your backyard. Is that where you're doing? Do you have like a box of bees that you're keeping on hand?

Sarah:
They're in the house. They're like a little beeza hut, and I have a delivery of bees every fortnight, and then I use those to sting.

Mimi:
How many stings each time you do it?

Sarah:
10 stings, so it's 30 stings a week.

Mimi:
Oh, my word. That has to be so painful.

Sarah:
I'm getting used to it actually, but at the beginning yeah.

Mimi:
I've gotten stinged once by a bee and I was in so much pain. I can't imagine.

Sarah:
It's crazy what your body can get used to actually. It depends what you eat. If you're on a low histamine diet as well, the pains are less painful. If you eat spices and higher histamine foods, I've noticed that the stings hurt more and yeah, in certain parts, like the lower you go and the higher you go they're tender.

Mimi:
Do you have someone do it for you because how do you hit your back?

Sarah:
Well, no, 90% of the time I do it myself and then 10% of the time when I'm staying with my girlfriend, she does it, which is nice because then I can have a break. It's done much faster if someone else is stinging you. But yeah, I normally sting myself and use like two mirrors. So yeah, use two mirrors, one in front of me, and then I have a big mirror behind me to see where I'm stinging, and then use the tweezers. It takes a while to train your brain.

Mimi:
You take the tweezers... I'm so fascinated by this. You take the tweezers, and you hold the bee, and then you let the bee go, or you keep holding it on until it stings you?

Sarah:
Yeah. You keep the bee on the tweezers, and then you're stinging an inch away from your spine and then two inches down. So on a Monday, I'll sting the upper half and then on a Wednesday, the lower half, then on a Friday, the upper half, and then like following that.

Mimi:
And then do you have to take the little stingers out?

Sarah:
Yeah, after 20 minutes. So I leave them in for 20 minutes and then take them out.

Mimi:
How do you get them out off your back?

Sarah:
I mean, you just kind of just scratch them out with your [crosstalk 00:11:05].

Mimi:
Okay. Wow. That's just like, it's crazy. I was taking peptides for a little bit and just even taking a needle every day or twice a day, got on me and I stopped doing it. That's probably the one reason why I haven't done the bee therapy is because I just can't get my head around purposely stinging myself, but I've heard so many good things about it.

Sarah:
Yeah. For me, I'm definitely seeing the most neurological improvements, which is really... Yeah, it's obviously encouraging, so it just helps when you're stinging yourself to know that it's helping you.

Mimi:
Too bad we can't just figure out a way to put the bee venom into like a syringe.

Sarah:
Well, they do do that.

Mimi:
Oh, they do.

Sarah:
Yeah. People just say it doesn't work the same because it's not fresh, and it's a lot more expensive. If you have it done with a syringe, it's a lot more expensive.

Mimi:
With your clients that you work, are they from all over the world or are they primarily from Europe?

Sarah:
I say all over the world really.

Mimi:
And do you use the bee venom therapy with them too?

Sarah:
No, that's just me.

Mimi:
Not yet anyway, until you get through the... So can you talk to me about if someone comes to you, they know they have Lyme, which would be fortunate because a lot of people don't realize they have it, but they come to you, and they know they have Lyme. What is typically your approach as far as is it getting the gut healed first? Is it dealing with mold, parasites? What is typically your process?

Sarah:
From my experience looking back hindsight, the way that I would have started would definitely be making sure that your detox pathways are open, and the lymphatic system is moving before you go in and start targeting the bacteria.

Mimi:
And how do you do that? Do you test for it? Is there a particular test that someone would need to get?

Sarah:
Mainly I try and go on if someone... How many times are you going to the toilet a day? Can you easily sweat? Are your lymph glands swollen? So that's signs to me that the lymphatic system is stagnant and not pumping properly. And also, if someone's not going to the toilet twice a day, then they're not releasing enough toxins also from their body. So usually, I just go on symptoms and then try and put those things in first, so just try and start from a more stable foundation.

Mimi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I know IIN, the basis of that school is nutrition.

Sarah:
Yeah.

Mimi:
So I assume primarily what you consult with people is nutritional and is there a particular diet that you typically suggest for somebody with Lyme?

Sarah:
I would say actually nutrition isn't the biggest thing that I talk with my clients about because from my own experience it actually is a huge part. Obviously, eating whole foods and anti-inflammatory foods is really, really important. But from my own experience, I think it's only 50% of the healing and I also see a lot of people that have a lot of fear around their food and if you're having a lot of [inaudible 00:14:03] histamine reactions, I see a lot of people that have a really unhealthy relationship with their food, just out of fear, and I've been in that place as well and just not knowing what you can eat.

Sarah:
I think coming from that place, that adds a lot of stress to your life, so I actually try to help people feel a bit more relaxed about food and their choices, and yeah, definitely implementing whole foods, anti-inflammatory foods, and it's different for everyone. It's very individual. So someone might do better with more carbs. Someone might do better with less carbs, like paleo. I do a lot of detox cleansing diets, which are more vegan and raw but only as a cleansing period.

Mimi:
So detoxing is what you're saying is primarily making sure your lymph is working in your detox. Then what do you typically find for people who are not getting better and have chronic Lyme, is it typically because of mold, parasites, do you see a theme?

Sarah:
I think one of the biggest ones, and I'm kind of coming from my own experience here as well because I'm still healing, so it's interesting that a lot of people are going through the same experience and I would say that the nervous system stuff is one of the things that holds a lot of healing back because with chronic illness you're stuck in a fight or flight all the time. It's really hard when you have symptoms to not just go into total panic, anxiety, and sometimes you can't even control that because your body is just pumping out adrenaline and with Lyme your neurotransmitters aren't working correctly.

Sarah:
So for me, working on really calming your body down. Working on a lot of nervous system stuff like breathing. Working on the vagus nerve and things like that. Trying to get your body into the most relaxed state you can, which is, I know sometimes can feel impossible when you have a chronic illness to calm down your nervous system, but for me, that's one of the things I think a lot of people struggle with is how can I feel calm and heal my body at the same time? It's one of those things you're trying to balance out your treatment and calming down your nervous system at the same time.

Mimi:
Is there any particular program that you use, you mentioned breath work or anything else that you use to do that?

Sarah:
Well, I kind of have my own... I do a little bit of Wim Hof breathing and I do different breathing ones that I follow on YouTube and things like that. And then vagus nerve stimulation, like singing. I'm doing a lot of trauma release at the moment in my own healing and I see a lot of people in the community... It's interesting that everyone works together, and we all feel like we're kind of at the same stage.

Sarah:
So I think trauma release is actually also a really, really big part of taking that next step in your healing. If you feel that you've got to a barrier, and you can't get past it, like for me, I had to go and start looking at my trauma and how I could release it from my nervous system.

Mimi:
I definitely think that's super important. I'm curious, do you think Lyme can go away, or do you think we're always stuck with it?

Sarah:
I would like to think that it can go away.

Mimi:
I know, right.

Sarah:
Personally, I try not to think too much about remission or cure because, at the end of the day, I just feel like if my body or my immune system can work in a way where I don't have symptoms, then I don't really care which one it is.

Mimi:
Have you found... Well, I guess you're not there. You're like me. We're on a journey. I'm to the point where I feel good, but I'm like, "Am I ever going to be a hundred percent?" I always wonder that. Have you seen anybody that's reached the hundred percent and just gotten to the finish line, or maybe it's a different finish line?

Sarah:
Yeah. I definitely know people that are a hundred percent better.

Mimi:
For anyone who's listening, is there any tips, or if you were to say okay, these are the top three things you would do as you're starting out on your healing journey, looking back on your experience that you could say, "Do these three things." If it's at home or if it's going to see somebody, anything, that you would say biggest bang for your buck. Make sure you're doing this because something that you might think is common sense might not be for somebody else.

Sarah:
It's really hard to choose three.

Mimi:
You can just rattle off as many as you want. I'm just curious. I want to make sure. I had learned something a couple weeks ago and someone's like, "You don't do that." And I was like, "No, I've never heard that before." It was almost kind of like they were surprised. So it was like taking minerals in your water because Lyme people tend to have low minerals and if you have low minerals, it makes the symptoms worse. So someone's like, "Are you taking minerals in your water?" And I was like, "No." So that's what I'm getting at.

Sarah:
I think detoxing at home is really, really, really important. So for me, my number one go-tos are sauna, sweating, make sure you can sweat, coffee enemas. I know they don't work for everyone. It depends how sensitive you are to caffeine. I'm very sensitive to it, so I only have a little bit of coffee in my enemas, but for me, that is my go-to if I'm having a really bad Herx, and it can really take my pain levels right down and help my brain fog, so that's another one that I think is really, really helpful.

Mimi:
Agree.

Sarah:
I also have a red light, which I've been using for a couple of months and I haven't done any reviews on my Instagram because I like to use things for a while before I can speak about them, but I'm definitely noticing the longer that I'm using it, the more effect that it's having on any inflammation, and I'm definitely noticing an improvement in my energy. Obviously, I don't know... I'm doing other things, so it's really hard to say which thing does what, but I definitely feel like when I'm really feeling inflamed, when I sit in front of my red light, I can just feel like it just calms down.

Mimi:
Is the red light you have, is it a nose clip or is it an actual... Like a bigger...?

Sarah:
It's a big one. It's half of my body size, so I have to get in front of it and just kind of work on... I usually work on from my head to my stomach area and yeah, I just sit in front of that like 20 minutes in the morning. I definitely have noticed that that brings down the inflammation in my body, which obviously has a really big effect on symptoms.

Sarah:
I think parasite cleansing is so important. Gut health, in general, has such a huge effect on our inflammation. So yeah, trying to do a parasite cleanse at home. I really like the Cellcore Protocol because it's quite simple and easy to follow.

Mimi:
What does that help with?

Sarah:
So that's parasites. Cellcore, I use quite a few of their products so like you would talk about minerals, I use their minerals for after I do an enema or a sauna. They've got a drainage and lymphatic program, and then they've got the parasite program as well with all the different herbs that you can use. So you can use it throughout the month, or you can just use it around the full moon and the new moon as well, just to target when the parasites are more active.

Mimi:
That's interesting. I didn't know that, that they become more active depending on the moon.

Sarah:
There's a few theories, but one of the theories is because of melatonin, your melatonin changes around the full moon and then the parasites become more active, so they're easier to... They kind of come out, and they're like out of their hiding spaces I guess and so it's easier to take supplements and actually target them.

Mimi:
Interesting. Oh, good. I didn't know that. Those are good suggestions. Yes.

Sarah:
I think definitely getting some emotional support and I wish I'd done that sooner.

Mimi:
I agree with that.

Sarah:
Try and do a good trauma as early as possible in your healing journey.

Mimi:
Because you might not even know you have trauma to from what I have learned. It could have been before your memory and so you just need to release that.

Sarah:
Yeah, I really wish I'd done that at the beginning because I was focusing more on physical stuff, which I think we all do and then these last couple of years, I've got to the place where the trauma has to be dealt with as well to get to the next stage of healing.

Mimi:
I agree with that. I agree with that. Well, this has been amazing. Is there anything else that you think we should cover, either things that you do in your practice or anything else with your Lyme journey that you think we may have missed?

Sarah:
I think testing is really important as well. Just trying to get an idea of where your body's at, because sometimes there's so many treatments out there we can get really overwhelmed, especially if we know following other people that are treating Lyme, we can get... I know I've done it. I'm like, "Oh my God, should I be doing that? Should I be doing that?" So you can just be really anxious and not know what your path is. So I think testing for me gives me that clear path of what my path is instead of it's not the same as somebody else's.

Mimi:
What kind of testing? There's so many tests out there. Are you talking Lyme testing? Are you talking more your basic blood test?

Sarah:
Yeah, just the functional test. So if you know you have Lyme and you don't know what to do next, as in, obviously you're going to treat the Lyme, but there's other things going on in your body, it's never just the Lyme. So testing for parasites, doing a gut test to see what your bacteria levels are.

Sarah:
Obviously, testing for mold is one as well that a lot of people don't know that they're affected by mold. So a mycotoxins test, I would definitely do. And also I think the adrenal tests are good. So the hormone saliva tests, just to show how your circadian rhythm is and how your hormones are working. That also gives you a good idea of what herbs to take to support your body and where it is and stress hormones. I think that's really important as well.

Mimi:
Now, if someone comes to you as a client, do they need to have all those tests done already, or are you able to do them for them?

Sarah:
Yeah, I can do them. I've done IIN, but I've done other ones as well, so I can do testing because I found that that was the missing link for me was the testing.

Mimi:
That's why I was asking.

Sarah:
Yeah. I can offer those tests as well.

Mimi:
Oh, that's perfect. Well, thank you so much. This has been so informative, and I feel like we're both at the same level for our healing journey. We've had it for about six years, so I feel like we're running the same race right now and hope to get back to that a hundred percent. I'm close. I'm getting there, just not completely there, but thank you for all that you do, and I love your Instagram page. So for anybody who's listening, it's the_healing.place to see Sarah's suggestions on how to detox and get through your healing journey. Thank you very much.

Sarah:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been really nice to share and connect with you and yeah, just hope the information can help someone on that journey.

Mimi:
Each week I will bring you different voices from the wellness community so that they can share how they help their clients heal. You will come away with tips and strategies to help you get your life back. Thank you so much for coming on, and I'm so happy you are here. Subscribe now and tune in next week if you want to learn how I detox, and you want to check out my detox for Lyme checklist, go to Lyme360.com/DetoxChecklist. You can also join our community at Lyme 360 Warriors on Facebook and let's heal together. Thank you.